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Weight control

Page history last edited by Richard Karpinski 11 years ago

Perhaps someone will make one or more articles with material drawn from the comments shown below.

 

Here is a raw discussion in competing comments on someone else's diabetes related blog:

 

http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/17/64573/comments#c115574

Three Thousand Steps in Thirty Minutes

David Mendosa
David Mendosa
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Medical Journalist Living with Diabetes and Author of Fitness and Photography for Fun, www.mendosa.com/fitnessblog

After earning a B.A. with honors from the University of California...

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David Mendosa

Wednesday, March 25, 2009
View All of David Mendosa's Posts
Like most people, I used my pedometer passively to note how many steps I took each day. Now I use it as a prod for better performance and to help control my diabetes. We can use pedometers to motivate us to get enough of the moderate-intensity physical activity we need. The government's official 20...
  1. too much walkin' shoes worn thin

    frankenduf

    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 at 03:54 PM

    nice post- i would like to add 2 things: 1- a link for walking nerds:

    http://www.walkscore.com/

    2- exercising for 30 minutes is actually better than exercising for 10 minutes 3 different times- the reason is metabolic: we don't start burning fat until @ 20 minutes into the exercise, so it is better for fat loss- of course, 10 minutes is still fine for cardio and overall metabolic rate, but more fat will be lost with longer routines

    reply

    re: too much walkin' shoes worn thin

    Nitpicker

    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 at 04:17 PM

    Nice theory, but read Gary Taubes book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" to see why it's wrong. The science supporting that theory seems sensible but the science opposing it is much stronger. The fat liberating hormone Atkins suspected which makes a low carb diet work for weight loss is just reduced levels of insulin. Without both insulin and burned carbs, your fat cells cannot store fat. Still, even the scientists who demonstrated that concluded that people got obese due to sloth and gluttony, the exact conventional wisdom their experiments had just disproved.

     

    If they get it wrong, what kind of chance do the rest of us have for getting stuff right?

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    re: re: too much walkin' shoes worn thin

    frankenduf

    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 at 05:26 PM

    burning fat during exercise isn't a "theory"- the question is, when does it happen?- here's the answer: it doesn't happen in a sprint- over such a short time span, the body can only generate energy anaerobically via GLC and ATP

    it happens sometime during a marathon, when liver and muscle glycogen stores are exhausted- that is, a marathoner would collapse unless he could shunt from burning GLC (short term) to burning fat (long term)

    so, burning fat during exercise occurs somewhere between short and long term- of course @ 20 minutes is somewhat arbitrary, but it is borne out in performance studies- in fact, athletes have looked to shorten the window for burning fat during competition, eg. taking caffeine to burn fat earlier in the event for a fuel advantage

    talking about insulin is a smokescreen- the fact is we burn fat during exercise- the only question is when and the answer is after glycogen reserves are depleted

    as to any 'disproof' about sloth and gluttony leading to obesity: nobody ever got obese from running marathons or starving themselves- you should watch The Biggest Loser- those obese patients lose up to 50% of their body weight through exercise and diet

     

    reply

    re: re: re: too much walkin' shoes worn thin

    Nitpicker

    Thursday, March 26, 2009 at 02:11 AM

    I agree that it happens then. If you tightly restrict carb intake, you also get to where fat gets burned without enduring serious exercise. At least it worked for me when I lost fifty pounds after my heart attacks.

     

    And folks can lose a lot of fat with calorie restriction and exercise. But notice that until you look at five year successes it looks much better than afterwards. The latest stats I know of say 19 out of 20 caloric restriction dieters put it all back on and usually more. Now we know the gremlin of yoyo dieting is ghrelin which the stomach puts out when it senses starvation. That hormone raises appetite, lowers metabolism, and makes your fat cells greedy. Indeed, gastric surgery works in part by reducing ghrelin.

     

    One approach to fixing that problem is cute but scary. Force the body to make antibodies to the active form of ghrelin. That doesn't destroy the ghrelin, but with the antibody attached the complex is too big to cross the blood brain barrier and cause those three effects.

     

    But gluttony and sloth are not the only underlying causes of obesity. They help.

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    re: re: re: re: too much walkin' shoes worn thin

    frankenduf

    Thursday, March 26, 2009 at 09:36 AM

    ok, that ghrelin/gremlin pun is pretty sweet :)- and you seem to be emphasizing the genetic component of obesity which i agree with- in any population, a normal distribution of obesity will occur, just like a normal distribution of height- so blaming an obese person is kinda like blaming Dikembe Mutombo for being too damn tall!?- the problem is, over the last 30 years, our obesity rate has skyrocketed- and 30 years is not enough time for any signifigant change in population genetics or ghrelin metabolism- so i would argue that alot of modern obesity is caused by the environment- too much cheap food and too much couch/web surfing- and so the physical treatments for obesity (stomach carving and hormone manipulation) miss the boat- the only way to prevent the causes of modern obesity is to enact public policy that engenders healthier eating and active lifestyles

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    re: re: re: re: re: too much walkin' shoes worn thin

    Nitpicker

    Thursday, March 26, 2009 at 05:41 PM

    Hey thanks, it didn't take so long to get to a place where I can heartedly agree with you.

     

    I hate that this system hides most of your comment while I compose mine. Now I have it on another tab. My browser ought to let me clip it and put both on screen, and the site ought to automatically do that itself.

     

    Interesting point about the last 30 years. Gary Taubes book, I think, had a chart which also shows the amazing parallel twixt that obesity rate and the use of high fructose corn syrup in the last 30 years. And fructose does not stimulate insulin, only the glucose in sucrose does. The fructose goes directly to the liver to be converted into triglicerides, possibly also known as LDLs or VLDLs, but I am uncertain of that detail.

     

    Still, Taubes and I think the major environmental factor leading to the obesity epidemic is the false hope that doctors have provided by subscribing to the conventional wisdom to lose weight by eating a low fat, thus hi carb, diet and restricting calories as well. This gives a double whammy which fosters yoyo dieting, while appearing perfectly sensible.

     

    This defect in diet advice is so common and so devastating that I am overly sensitive to any claim that heads there. I'm at risk for developing a single minded focus on convincing doctors, dieticians, and ultimately food providers and eaters that Atkins was basically right and that (almost) all the professionals have accepted bad science. I suspect it often makes me look like I'm tilting at windmills. If I can help save the world from this ongoing disaster, I'll be happy to look foolish all day and all night.

     

    Would I have your permission to copy our interchanges to my wiki at Nitpicker.pbwiki.com ? It has ways to contact me, as Mendosa does too.

    reply

    re: re: re: re: re: re: too much walkin' shoes worn thin

    frankenduf

    Friday, March 27, 2009 at 09:29 AM

    yeah, you're right- even now i'm @!#%$@ing cuz i have to open another window to see your comment- maybe this site wants to foster curt comments :)- well, i would agree that Atkins was unfairly persecuted- it seems to me that in any field of academia, there are opposing camps that battle for obtaining some pre-eminent position of authority- so for nutrition, the low fat and low carb viewpoints are clashing- to me, true philosophy (or PhD) for nutrition is embracing the variety of viewpoints in the discipline and realizing that this dialectic is what spurs our understanding forward (i'll presume you agree, since nitpicker is close to gadfly?!)- but inevitably, you get strife between the camps, calling the other side names, etc.- as to the HFCS, i believe that is the ultimate merging of the phenomenon of cheap calorie tech and corrupt politics- agribusiness has even succesfully lobbied to get corn into our gasoline!?- well, at least we're on the right side for public health- trying to inform ourselves and others over and against the juggernaut of agribusiness marketing- cheers (ok, you swig the low CHO rotgut, and i'll down the cherry wine)

    ps- of course you can copy- the internet is the blessed free exchange of ideas, right?- besides, i have no idea what a pbwiki is- all i know is wikipedia, which i wish was around when i was a student- it puts cliffs notes to shame

    reply

  2. Watch for updates on exercise

    Nitpicker

    Wednesday, March 25, 2009 at 04:07 PM

    You know that the conventional wisdom about losing weight by eating a low fat diet is just wrong. It is a major cause of the obesity epidemic. In fact we have lots of conventional wisdom which arises from sensible but wrong opinions not supported by good science.

     

    A mile is a thousand paces or two thousand steps, more or less. So three thousand steps in half an hour is about three miles an hour, a fast but not speedy walk. Some doctors, including Al Sears in particular, now say the conventional wisdom there too is wrong. They say that this aerobic exercise trains your heart to be efficient, not powerful. If you want to survive, you want a powerful heart, not a slimmed down efficient heart.

     

    P.A.C.E. is Sears' book which explains that he advises all out exercise for thirty SECONDS, several times in a day. He claims this style of exercise is what will keep you alive longer. I suspect he's right, but, as with diet by Atkins, it may take a decade or even several before expert opinion is matched up with the best science. Still, I doubt that aerobic exercise will do you any harm if you also do the brief sprints that Sears advocates.

     

    Note that I am not a doctor, but please don't accept bad advice even from good certified doctors. They learned to accept authority in medical school, but science is almost the opposite. Science progresses by questioning and trying to disprove every hypothesis, especially those that all the authorities accept as gospel. It may be weird but in the long run science has proven more reliable than authority.

     

    Good luck, and be well.

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